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Posts tagged Revolutionary Girl Utena

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Prudishness and Deviance: Sexual Content in Anime

monday, october 25, 2010 2038h
owen s:
incest is one of the hallmarks of anime
pretty sure Japan overdoes it compared to TV/movies in UK/US
ghostlightning:
moar like, anime has for the longest time
owen s:
a tradition of incest? haha
ghostlightning:
indulged in titillating fetishes
and incest is just one of them
owen s:
true true
ghostlightning:
this time
loli incest
lololol
but yeah
owen s:
no she's not even loli wtf
isn't she like highschool
doujins have consistently illustrated her with breasts
ghostlightning:
let me tell you what i think
owen s:
Sakura Kinomoto is loli
ok
ghostlightning:
first, 11 year olds start budding breasts
i've had schoolmates
not too rare
owen s:
she's 14
that's too old for shin
ghostlightning:
i'm saying breasts aren't too big an issue here
the thing is
many of these 'older' characters
are depicted deliberately in a loli style
they are made to look younger than they are
owen s:
looooooool i have got him
ghostlightning:
which to me, is just as indicative of the fetish for loli
you can have a bazillion year old character
owen s:
but loli is a specific fetish
ghostlightning:
but she is attractive to otaku
owen s:
you can't just say "evokes loli-esque" and directly equates it to loli
the ephebophilia thing is still valid
ghostlightning:
because she looks like a little girl
owen s:
it's not some dichotomy between lolis and milfs in anime!
little girls don't have hips
this is how all teenage girls in anime look like wtf
ghostlightning:
ephebophilia is a peculiar thing
because it was quite normal for 15 year olds to marry until sometime in the 20th century
i am attracted to teenagers
no sense in denying such
owen s:
I see
ghostlightning:
but pre-teens, despite manifestations of puberty
squick me out
owen s:
wait what
so wth is "teen" then
ghostlightning:
teen is 13+
owen s:
yes so she is a teen
wtf
ghostlightning:
i remember fapping to teenagers when i was a teenagers
(lol the humbert humbert defense)
owen s:
I dunno I think a lot of people seem to just tar everything with the same brush and can't even tell anymore
what's loli and what's not
ghostlightning:
but I've no doubt that this isn't deviant
owen s:
we're still talking about oreimo right
ghostlightning:
you see, 18 as a legal age
is arbitrary
it is a matter of policy, and not nature
informed by mostly religious morality
that said, it is also fair to say, that the laws protect these youths who are more vulnerable to
assault or harassment from adults
who cannot defend themselves or redress themselves on the same terms
ergo the state provides them rights and protection
i think this is fair
but it is also not natural
so do I disagree with the moral grounds? no
but do I understand them? yes
i sympathize with the moral grounds against underage sexualization by adults
but i do not think it is unnatural for adults to lust after teenagers
it is not deviant in my eyes
now, to anime
owen s:
eheheh I hope you never have to give this speech to your wife for whatever reason
ghostlightning:
the little sister is indeed a teenager
but in many ways (I suspect) she acts like a little girl
when she isn't acting like an otaku
a male otaku
so the tone indeed is titillating, and plays to the loli fetish, on top of the ephebophilia fetish
it isn't just one thing
owen s:
should make this into a post imo
but I get your point
ghostlightning:
revolutionary girl utena is ironically easier to forgive, because you know it is fucking with you

Filed under lolicon incest oreimo revolutionary girl utena

0 notes &

In the previous post I mentioned how, after robot anime, I really like swordfight anime. Over on twitter, my friend Iknight noted how he doesn’t think animation handles swordfights as well as live-action. I actually agree, which is why I value the small number of shows that do it well (or passably). Star Driver 03 gives an example of how even when a show animates a swordfight with some fluidity, there are still things that we can view as problems. If one can imagine a continuum of swordfight anime similar to the real robot - super robot continuum, Star Driver (or at least the swordfight in this episode) would be in the super side of the line.  I would imagine Revolutionary Girl Utena to be somewhere in the super side of the line as well. In Utena’s case the finishing moves and their resolution do not resemble anything that happens in the physical world, not to mention the super powers of the sword, and the in-fight possession by the Prince over Utena. In Star Driver everything seems fine if obviously stylized, until the Galactic Pretty-boy calls out his final attack, very much an anime/manga conceit. It’s the ‘super’ part of anime sword fights that make me agree with Iknight (beyond limits of budget in making choreography fluid) that anime can’t handle sword fights as well as live action can. Of course, unless, one actually enjoys these super attack shenanigans. (I dropped Sengoku Basara season two for this reason).

In the previous post I mentioned how, after robot anime, I really like swordfight anime. Over on twitter, my friend Iknight noted how he doesn’t think animation handles swordfights as well as live-action.

I actually agree, which is why I value the small number of shows that do it well (or passably).

Star Driver 03 gives an example of how even when a show animates a swordfight with some fluidity, there are still things that we can view as problems. If one can imagine a continuum of swordfight anime similar to the real robot - super robot continuum, Star Driver (or at least the swordfight in this episode) would be in the super side of the line. 

I would imagine Revolutionary Girl Utena to be somewhere in the super side of the line as well. In Utena’s case the finishing moves and their resolution do not resemble anything that happens in the physical world, not to mention the super powers of the sword, and the in-fight possession by the Prince over Utena.

In Star Driver everything seems fine if obviously stylized, until the Galactic Pretty-boy calls out his final attack, very much an anime/manga conceit.

It’s the ‘super’ part of anime sword fights that make me agree with Iknight (beyond limits of budget in making choreography fluid) that anime can’t handle sword fights as well as live action can. Of course, unless, one actually enjoys these super attack shenanigans.

(I dropped Sengoku Basara season two for this reason).

Filed under Star Driver Revolutionary Girl Utena Swords Anime

2 notes &

Lots of intelligent impressions re Star Driver, but I do notice that all the intelligent discourse I’ve read about it are skeptical at best. 

It would seem that those who are genuinely fired up for this show did not use much of their critical faculties, or perhaps they’re/we’re the ones who aren’t particularly discerning.

Well, I loved it. I think it evokes some of the wild spirit of the creators’ past works (Ouran Host Club, Revolutionary Girl Utena) and I want to see a lot more of this. I want to hear more singing, I want to see more flamboyant fighting. I want to see a male version of the idol in a robot show.

The thing is, I don’t consume shows on the database level alone (I have SRW OG: The Inspector for that). Part of what attracts me to Star Driver is the ambition that I expect from it, given the pedigree of its creators. I want something transcendent!

Maybe it won’t be RahXephon, or Eureka SeveN, but I want it to be at least more enjoyable than Xam’d, and definitely better than Heroman and Wolf’s Rain among the shows I’ve seen in the Studio Bones filmography.

Yeah, George Honda did remind me of Saionji Kyouchi.

Filed under Star Driver Revolutionary Girl Utena George Honda Saionji Kyouichi Studio Bones

1 note &

WHOSE RESPONSIBLE THIS

Something really interesting for me near the very end of the Black Rose Society arc (I’m watching Utena duel Mikage at this very moment). I was wondering how Utena finally figures in this arc in terms of her own motivation and purpose, so here we have it.

Utena is a hero, she stands for justice… as she imagines how her ‘prince’ must stand for justice (this is part of why she emulates him, or at least her ideal). While the Student Council arc was more about (in relation to Utena’s purpose and motive) setting Anthy free from the role of the Rose Bride in the midst of those who wish to possess her as such, and the Black Rose Society arc is more about protecting Anthy from those who wish to kill her, this is not quite it.

The injustice that Utena fights against is how the duelists she faced intend to kill Anthy as a result of manipulation. She believes these were not actions borne of free choice. Mikage is the culprit, and thus she challenged him herself.

Mikage argues however, that all these duelists acted on their free will. They were all there to ‘make their memories eternal.’ He only prepared a path for them to achieve their wishes.

Mikage too, wants to preserve his memories for eternity; and to do so is to kill Anthy and replace her with Mamiya as the Rose Bride. This is the same path he prepared for each of the duelists.

However, how does this exactly work for the duelists should they win? While I can easily imagine how it can work for Mikage, I don’t see how it could work for Wakaba and the others.

The question that Utena engages with swordplay is: Where does the responsibility of the duelists end, and where does Mikage’s own begin?

For me, both are at fault. However, Mikage is the evil one. How exactly? He values the welfare of the duelists very little. They are expendable to him. We know this for certain because he is responsible for the deaths of 100 students bearing the rose signet ring, to preserve his memories for eternity.

Filed under revolutionary girl utena

0 notes &

Something Changed in the Black Rose Society Arc

While I was pondering the futility of how the different ‘possessed’ duelists dashed themselves upon the fortifications of God-mode Utena, I was already problematizing how ‘unexciting’ these duels are since the ends were never in doubt…

Only that they were actually very exciting anyway, and that the result of the duel in terms of victory and loss never became the point. I only fully realized this on episode 21 when Keiko was fighting using Toga’s sword…

For the first time, killing the Rose Bride wasn’t the goal… contradictory to the purposes of the Black Rose Society that gave her the means to possess Toga’s sword in the first place.

The Black Rose Society arc is a litany of tragedies. It’s really very sad, pathetic, and rather dark. The prize in watching the duels is how the motivations are uttered out loud:

  1. The build up in internal monologue happens in the first half of each respective episode (the internal response to the indignities mounting up) … self to self (tempter makes move afterward); individual is powerless.
  2. The confessional in the dark elevator (This is very sinister and amazing) … self to mirror + tempter; the individual is in abject powerlessness; this is the elevator to rock bottom.
  3. The duel, where the motivations are confidently communicated, while the confessor/duelist is filled with power. THEY LOSE AT THE PEAK OF THEIR POWER (to God-mode Utena — save for Wakaba who used Saionji who was thereby humiliated further — both of them — by the narrative).

That’s the tragic structure, interestingly undermined by amnesia — which allows the arc to ‘progress’ in sequence; there are no lasting consequences. Rather, the consequences can be revealed with dramatic timing later on in the narrative in its entirety.

Filed under revolutionary girl utena